Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-17-2014 17:57

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual's performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé's job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor's performance and protégé's performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor's performance and protégé's OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn't have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847


  • 2.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-17-2014 21:16
    Hi Stephanie,

    Just a quick thought... I have done some research using military samples ( though not on the topic of mentoring) and using police samples. I too have found seemingly counterintuitive relationships on occasion. Might I suggest that the 'militariness' you refer might be a strong group level effect. The soldiers, firefighters, police are often physically clustered within units, fire stations, police stations. As a result of that and a certain level of camaraderie that develops within units the workgroup becomes a strong situation. There may be more variance across groups than within.

    You might look at some of the research done by folks like Paul Bliese, Tom Britt, who have done multilevel research in military settings. 

    Hope this helps. Good luck!
    Gary

    Gary A. Adams, Ph.D. 
    Industrial and Organizational Psychologist 
    Professor of Human Resource Management 
    College of Business 
    University of Wisconsin Oshkosh 
    Oshkosh, WI 54901 
    Tel. 920.424.2071 
    Fax. 920.424.7413 
    Web. http://www.uwosh.edu/faculty_staff/adamsg 

    ========================================== 
    This e-mail may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you were not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all electronic copies and destroy any printed copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. 
    Thank you. 

    ==========================================

    On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual’s performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé’s job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor’s performance and protégé’s performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor’s performance and protégé’s OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn’t have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847


  • 3.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-17-2014 21:21
    17 Feb 2014
     
    Hi Stephanie,
     
    I have surveyed EMT/firefighters several times and I am not sure the concept of "militaryness" is entirely represented as you intend in that sample occupation. You suggest EMT/firefighters and police are military-type occupations. However, they may be in uniform and have strong cultures but are often unionized, have long tenures with their organizations and expect to be employed for an entire career, and conduct their work in the surrounding community. Military personnel are non-union and often have expectations of short careers in the military except for the career personnel. The firefighters all have similar jobs and work in the same conditions and environments while military personnel have varied jobs and ranks. Military personnel differ by enlisted and commissioned designations, too. I am not sure the military personnel often have mentors.
     
    These are some of the differences that might influence construction of a measure of your construct. If I were designing a measure, I might relate it to organizational commitment and organizational culture. I might also relate it to a requirement for obedience to the command structure--not necessarily an authoritarian view but an implied respect for rank and position of authority.
     
    Good luck with your work.
     
    Dave McLain
    Hamilton, NY 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     


    On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual’s performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé’s job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor’s performance and protégé’s performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor’s performance and protégé’s OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn’t have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847



  • 4.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-17-2014 22:23

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I did some research on firefighters in a cross-cultural study comparing the firefighters from Caracas, Venezuela and their counterparts in Oklahoma City, Ok! This so many moons ago that the paper was really typed on an IBM typewriter! Remember them?  The firefighters in Venezuela (at the time) existed in more paramilitary discipline regime than the guys in OKC! Working conditions at the time were also different, but these two groups did not show any difference with respect to their satisfaction with the job itself!  Looked at task technology but the measure applied (developed by one of my advisors) did not work well!

    I must tell you that I was a firefighter myself for many years in Venezuela before I became an academic. While it is true that in many fire departments they assign a mentor to the rookies it is also true that firefighters, more that police officers, spend a lot more time clustered together in their fire station! The togetherness that exists in the fire station is augmented when in fire situations. There is a whole lot of informal learning taking place all the time both in the fire station and when fighting fires! This learning comes from the mentor and from the veterans in the service. So, I don't think that it is too easy to separate both sources of learning! My last rank was that of Captain and I will be guiding, teaching, helping the other guys learn more and better what they were doing regardless of seniority. Some times the mentor would be there too! Although I have been away from the active service for many, many years many of the new guys still see me as one of them, even here in the U.S.!

    Thanks,

     

    Ivan

     

     

    Dr. R. Ivan Blanco

    Department of Management

    McCoy College of Business Administration    

    Texas State University

    San Marcos, TX 78666

    Phone (512) 245-1842   rb39@txstate.edu

     


    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv [OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] on behalf of David McLain [david.mclain@OSWEGO.EDU]
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:21 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

    17 Feb 2014
     
    Hi Stephanie,
     
    I have surveyed EMT/firefighters several times and I am not sure the concept of "militaryness" is entirely represented as you intend in that sample occupation. You suggest EMT/firefighters and police are military-type occupations. However, they may be in uniform and have strong cultures but are often unionized, have long tenures with their organizations and expect to be employed for an entire career, and conduct their work in the surrounding community. Military personnel are non-union and often have expectations of short careers in the military except for the career personnel. The firefighters all have similar jobs and work in the same conditions and environments while military personnel have varied jobs and ranks. Military personnel differ by enlisted and commissioned designations, too. I am not sure the military personnel often have mentors.
     
    These are some of the differences that might influence construction of a measure of your construct. If I were designing a measure, I might relate it to organizational commitment and organizational culture. I might also relate it to a requirement for obedience to the command structure--not necessarily an authoritarian view but an implied respect for rank and position of authority.
     
    Good luck with your work.
     
    Dave McLain
    Hamilton, NY 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     


    On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual's performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé's job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor's performance and protégé's performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor's performance and protégé's OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn't have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847



  • 5.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-18-2014 01:21

    Ivan,


    Thank you for your comments, you have given me much to think about in regards of the differences between mentoring episodes and social learning. I would ask from your first hand experience, what other than learning some of the skills and knowledge you needed, did you or others gain from mentors (or being mentors) in the fire service? I seems like I might need to explore other outcome variables, as the variance in performance is so low. I also assume it was your experience that in the fire service there were very high and exact performance standards which if not followed resulted in the quick termination of employees? If so, would you consider this element part of the organization's structure or something else?


    Many thanks for your response and assistance!


    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847

    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv <OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU> on behalf of Blanco, R Ivan <rb39@TXSTATE.EDU>
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:23 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations
     

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I did some research on firefighters in a cross-cultural study comparing the firefighters from Caracas, Venezuela and their counterparts in Oklahoma City, Ok! This so many moons ago that the paper was really typed on an IBM typewriter! Remember them?  The firefighters in Venezuela (at the time) existed in more paramilitary discipline regime than the guys in OKC! Working conditions at the time were also different, but these two groups did not show any difference with respect to their satisfaction with the job itself!  Looked at task technology but the measure applied (developed by one of my advisors) did not work well!

    I must tell you that I was a firefighter myself for many years in Venezuela before I became an academic. While it is true that in many fire departments they assign a mentor to the rookies it is also true that firefighters, more that police officers, spend a lot more time clustered together in their fire station! The togetherness that exists in the fire station is augmented when in fire situations. There is a whole lot of informal learning taking place all the time both in the fire station and when fighting fires! This learning comes from the mentor and from the veterans in the service. So, I don't think that it is too easy to separate both sources of learning! My last rank was that of Captain and I will be guiding, teaching, helping the other guys learn more and better what they were doing regardless of seniority. Some times the mentor would be there too! Although I have been away from the active service for many, many years many of the new guys still see me as one of them, even here in the U.S.!

    Thanks,

     

    Ivan

     

     

    Dr. R. Ivan Blanco

    Department of Management

    McCoy College of Business Administration    

    Texas State University

    San Marcos, TX 78666

    Phone (512) 245-1842   rb39@txstate.edu

     


    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv [OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] on behalf of David McLain [david.mclain@OSWEGO.EDU]
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:21 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

    17 Feb 2014
     
    Hi Stephanie,
     
    I have surveyed EMT/firefighters several times and I am not sure the concept of "militaryness" is entirely represented as you intend in that sample occupation. You suggest EMT/firefighters and police are military-type occupations. However, they may be in uniform and have strong cultures but are often unionized, have long tenures with their organizations and expect to be employed for an entire career, and conduct their work in the surrounding community. Military personnel are non-union and often have expectations of short careers in the military except for the career personnel. The firefighters all have similar jobs and work in the same conditions and environments while military personnel have varied jobs and ranks. Military personnel differ by enlisted and commissioned designations, too. I am not sure the military personnel often have mentors.
     
    These are some of the differences that might influence construction of a measure of your construct. If I were designing a measure, I might relate it to organizational commitment and organizational culture. I might also relate it to a requirement for obedience to the command structure--not necessarily an authoritarian view but an implied respect for rank and position of authority.
     
    Good luck with your work.
     
    Dave McLain
    Hamilton, NY 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     


    On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual's performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé's job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor's performance and protégé's performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor's performance and protégé's OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn't have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847



  • 6.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-18-2014 04:54
    Good morning Stephanie,

    I am also collecting data with firefighters in Ireland (measuring the influence of leadership style on employee emotions) but haven't begun my analysis on this sample yet. However, what I've learned from talking to the firefighters, I think the fact that these employees must operate to strict health and safety standards in a military like setting could account for the fact that there is little room for variance in performance.  Unfortunately, I don't have any data to support this perspective.

    An important issue in this context is how are you measuring performance, what metrics are you using. If you are measuring adherence to set safety standards and procedures on the job, well the nature of the training and the work should be that there is little or no variance, as variance in performance (away from set procedures and standards) could mean life or death.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Regards,

    Ashley O'Donoghue

    Ashley O'Donoghue
    PhD Research Scholar 
    Dublin City University Business School LINK Research Centre
    086 803 9443


    On 17 February 2014 22:56, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual’s performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé’s job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor’s performance and protégé’s performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor’s performance and protégé’s OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn’t have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847



  • 7.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-18-2014 11:37
    Hi Stephanie,

    I have a few comments based on first-hand experience and a suggestion for a followup at NMSU with someone in the business dept who has more extensive first-hand experience if you haven't talked to him already.

    I served as a law enforcement national park ranger (US-NPS) some years back, with Patrol, firefighting, law enforcement, and visitor protection, and I was assigned an informal mentor as a rookie cop.

    I agree with Ivan that most of my learning and performance came from the unit cohesion and interactions I had with the station, rather than a single individual. I found my mentor to be a marginal fit and poor role model. 

    In my experience of paramilitary chain of command orgs, individual performance is somewhat sublimated under unit cohesion and unit identity. The individual's performance is affected by the expectations set by the leader. The mentor may or may not be the best conduit for expressing that. For example, 

    In our sub-district, we newer guys were gung-ho: setting records for citations, arrests, rescues, visitor contacts, over-time, things of that nature. This reflected the personality of the new district ranger who wanted to set a new pace.

    The older guys, including my mentor and another guy, the sub-district ranger, took a lower profile, go it slow approach, with less of a "heavy" handedness. They were far more concerned about fitting into the culture of the overall park and the surrounding community. 

    The sub-district and district ranger were in direct conflict and this was communicated down to the line staff in conflicting mandates. 

    At the time, I was shocked that individual performance was viewed positively or negatively based on how well it expressed the unstated and unwritten rules. OCB and performance in this world was therefore moderated not by military-ness but the judgement of the leaders in terms of perception by others on the outside of the unit... And those perceptions were multi-level (higher levels in chain of command, the public, other officers in squad, other squads).

    Perhaps that illuminates possible unobserved latent variables as either moderators or mediators for your study...

    You might want to follow up with Joe Gladstone, assistant prof at NMSU - he was my partner in the NPS and worked as a ranger for a number of years. We talked about this conflict quite a bit. Joe was also a Marine in an elite special ops group and studies management history. 

    Good luck! Lori



    On Feb 17, 2014, at 10:21 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@NMSU.EDU> wrote:

    Ivan,


    Thank you for your comments, you have given me much to think about in regards of the differences between mentoring episodes and social learning. I would ask from your first hand experience, what other than learning some of the skills and knowledge you needed, did you or others gain from mentors (or being mentors) in the fire service? I seems like I might need to explore other outcome variables, as the variance in performance is so low. I also assume it was your experience that in the fire service there were very high and exact performance standards which if not followed resulted in the quick termination of employees? If so, would you consider this element part of the organization's structure or something else?


    Many thanks for your response and assistance!


    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847

    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv <OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU> on behalf of Blanco, R Ivan <rb39@TXSTATE.EDU>
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:23 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations
     

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I did some research on firefighters in a cross-cultural study comparing the firefighters from Caracas, Venezuela and their counterparts in Oklahoma City, Ok! This so many moons ago that the paper was really typed on an IBM typewriter! Remember them?  The firefighters in Venezuela (at the time) existed in more paramilitary discipline regime than the guys in OKC! Working conditions at the time were also different, but these two groups did not show any difference with respect to their satisfaction with the job itself!  Looked at task technology but the measure applied (developed by one of my advisors) did not work well!

    I must tell you that I was a firefighter myself for many years in Venezuela before I became an academic. While it is true that in many fire departments they assign a mentor to the rookies it is also true that firefighters, more that police officers, spend a lot more time clustered together in their fire station! The togetherness that exists in the fire station is augmented when in fire situations. There is a whole lot of informal learning taking place all the time both in the fire station and when fighting fires! This learning comes from the mentor and from the veterans in the service. So, I don't think that it is too easy to separate both sources of learning! My last rank was that of Captain and I will be guiding, teaching, helping the other guys learn more and better what they were doing regardless of seniority. Some times the mentor would be there too! Although I have been away from the active service for many, many years many of the new guys still see me as one of them, even here in the U.S.!

    Thanks,

     

    Ivan

     

     

    Dr. R. Ivan Blanco

    Department of Management

    McCoy College of Business Administration    

    Texas State University

    San Marcos, TX 78666

    Phone (512) 245-1842   rb39@txstate.edu

     


    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv [OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] on behalf of David McLain [david.mclain@OSWEGO.EDU]
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:21 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

    17 Feb 2014
     
    Hi Stephanie,
     
    I have surveyed EMT/firefighters several times and I am not sure the concept of "militaryness" is entirely represented as you intend in that sample occupation. You suggest EMT/firefighters and police are military-type occupations. However, they may be in uniform and have strong cultures but are often unionized, have long tenures with their organizations and expect to be employed for an entire career, and conduct their work in the surrounding community. Military personnel are non-union and often have expectations of short careers in the military except for the career personnel. The firefighters all have similar jobs and work in the same conditions and environments while military personnel have varied jobs and ranks. Military personnel differ by enlisted and commissioned designations, too. I am not sure the military personnel often have mentors.
     
    These are some of the differences that might influence construction of a measure of your construct. If I were designing a measure, I might relate it to organizational commitment and organizational culture. I might also relate it to a requirement for obedience to the command structure--not necessarily an authoritarian view but an implied respect for rank and position of authority.
     
    Good luck with your work.
     
    Dave McLain
    Hamilton, NY 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     


    On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual's performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé's job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor's performance and protégé's performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor's performance and protégé's OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn't have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847



  • 8.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-18-2014 14:38

    Stephanie,

     

    The study of behavior and behavioral responses in fire departments is probably more complicated by the nature of the organization! For instance, I tried to find a relationship between task technology and job satisfaction and the results were not that great. In many previous studies this relationship was positive here in the U.S. For the fire departments there was not relationship at all in the Venezuelan sample, and the relationship was a negative one in the American sample. The only way I could explain this was by something that we did not consider or control for in the study! This is that there are basically two "different major tasks" in any FD! One is the mostly slow, sometimes boring work you do while in the fire station and the other more much more dynamic, adrenaline driven, exciting and dangerous situations when you are in a fire situation! This is just one aspect of what we did.

     

    As I indicated the training and development of a firefighter is not as simple as it is in many other organizations, as Lori described for the park rangers! When you are a rookie you learn a lot from the firefighters around you in a fire scenario! You observe some, listen to instructions being screamed at you, or someone grabs your arm to call your attention to something you are not doing right, etc.! In fact when I was there we used to get back from a fire and gathered around to debrief ourselves, with critiques of what we did, etc.! We would this even before cleaning ourselves after a fire! The learning goes beyond the technical aspects of fighting fires, and gets into other aspects of life! We are brothers and sisters in the fire service!

     

    In many paramilitary organization you learn to not like your officers too much, but in the FD the LT's and Capt's are your comrades, and close partners! So for the most part you show good OCB! In fact I would say that you will have problems finding other types of organizations where OCB is higher than what it is in most FD (I am out on a limb on this)! Performance evaluation is a more complex process. You live together, work together, you protect me on this task today and I help you in other tomorrow, work in teams and recognize how much we depend on each other, cook together, and then also drink together when you are off! 

     

    I know I am missing lots of stuff here, but this message is already too long!

     

    Thanks,


    Ivan   

     

     

    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv [mailto:OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lori Kendall
    Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:37 AM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

     

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I have a few comments based on first-hand experience and a suggestion for a followup at NMSU with someone in the business dept who has more extensive first-hand experience if you haven't talked to him already.

     

    I served as a law enforcement national park ranger (US-NPS) some years back, with Patrol, firefighting, law enforcement, and visitor protection, and I was assigned an informal mentor as a rookie cop.

     

    I agree with Ivan that most of my learning and performance came from the unit cohesion and interactions I had with the station, rather than a single individual. I found my mentor to be a marginal fit and poor role model. 

     

    In my experience of paramilitary chain of command orgs, individual performance is somewhat sublimated under unit cohesion and unit identity. The individual's performance is affected by the expectations set by the leader. The mentor may or may not be the best conduit for expressing that. For example, 

     

    In our sub-district, we newer guys were gung-ho: setting records for citations, arrests, rescues, visitor contacts, over-time, things of that nature. This reflected the personality of the new district ranger who wanted to set a new pace.

     

    The older guys, including my mentor and another guy, the sub-district ranger, took a lower profile, go it slow approach, with less of a "heavy" handedness. They were far more concerned about fitting into the culture of the overall park and the surrounding community. 

     

    The sub-district and district ranger were in direct conflict and this was communicated down to the line staff in conflicting mandates. 

     

    At the time, I was shocked that individual performance was viewed positively or negatively based on how well it expressed the unstated and unwritten rules. OCB and performance in this world was therefore moderated not by military-ness but the judgement of the leaders in terms of perception by others on the outside of the unit... And those perceptions were multi-level (higher levels in chain of command, the public, other officers in squad, other squads).

     

    Perhaps that illuminates possible unobserved latent variables as either moderators or mediators for your study...

     

    You might want to follow up with Joe Gladstone, assistant prof at NMSU - he was my partner in the NPS and worked as a ranger for a number of years. We talked about this conflict quite a bit. Joe was also a Marine in an elite special ops group and studies management history. 

     

    Good luck! Lori

     

     


    On Feb 17, 2014, at 10:21 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@NMSU.EDU> wrote:

    Ivan,

     

    Thank you for your comments, you have given me much to think about in regards of the differences between mentoring episodes and social learning. I would ask from your first hand experience, what other than learning some of the skills and knowledge you needed, did you or others gain from mentors (or being mentors) in the fire service? I seems like I might need to explore other outcome variables, as the variance in performance is so low. I also assume it was your experience that in the fire service there were very high and exact performance standards which if not followed resulted in the quick termination of employees? If so, would you consider this element part of the organization's structure or something else?

     

    Many thanks for your response and assistance!


    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick


    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847


    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv <OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU> on behalf of Blanco, R Ivan <rb39@TXSTATE.EDU>
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:23 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

     

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I did some research on firefighters in a cross-cultural study comparing the firefighters from Caracas, Venezuela and their counterparts in Oklahoma City, Ok! This so many moons ago that the paper was really typed on an IBM typewriter! Remember them?  The firefighters in Venezuela (at the time) existed in more paramilitary discipline regime than the guys in OKC! Working conditions at the time were also different, but these two groups did not show any difference with respect to their satisfaction with the job itself!  Looked at task technology but the measure applied (developed by one of my advisors) did not work well!

    I must tell you that I was a firefighter myself for many years in Venezuela before I became an academic. While it is true that in many fire departments they assign a mentor to the rookies it is also true that firefighters, more that police officers, spend a lot more time clustered together in their fire station! The togetherness that exists in the fire station is augmented when in fire situations. There is a whole lot of informal learning taking place all the time both in the fire station and when fighting fires! This learning comes from the mentor and from the veterans in the service. So, I don't think that it is too easy to separate both sources of learning! My last rank was that of Captain and I will be guiding, teaching, helping the other guys learn more and better what they were doing regardless of seniority. Some times the mentor would be there too! Although I have been away from the active service for many, many years many of the new guys still see me as one of them, even here in the U.S.!

    Thanks,

     

    Ivan

     

     

    Dr. R. Ivan Blanco

    Department of Management

    McCoy College of Business Administration    

    Texas State University

    San Marcos, TX 78666

    Phone (512) 245-1842   rb39@txstate.edu

     


    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv [OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] on behalf of David McLain [david.mclain@OSWEGO.EDU]
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:21 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

    17 Feb 2014

     

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I have surveyed EMT/firefighters several times and I am not sure the concept of "militaryness" is entirely represented as you intend in that sample occupation. You suggest EMT/firefighters and police are military-type occupations. However, they may be in uniform and have strong cultures but are often unionized, have long tenures with their organizations and expect to be employed for an entire career, and conduct their work in the surrounding community. Military personnel are non-union and often have expectations of short careers in the military except for the career personnel. The firefighters all have similar jobs and work in the same conditions and environments while military personnel have varied jobs and ranks. Military personnel differ by enlisted and commissioned designations, too. I am not sure the military personnel often have mentors.

     

    These are some of the differences that might influence construction of a measure of your construct. If I were designing a measure, I might relate it to organizational commitment and organizational culture. I might also relate it to a requirement for obedience to the command structure--not necessarily an authoritarian view but an implied respect for rank and position of authority.

     

    Good luck with your work.

     

    Dave McLain

    Hamilton, NY 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!

     

    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.

     

    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual's performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé's job performance and OCB.

     

    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor's performance and protégé's performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor's performance and protégé's OCB.

     

    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????

     

    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.

     

    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn't have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.

     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.

     

    Many thanks in advance!

     


    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick


    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847

     



  • 9.  Militaryness in Organizations

    Posted 02-18-2014 14:52
    Hi Stephanie,

    It may help if you clarified what you mean by Militaryness.  There are many factors that could be used to describe militaryness, such as culture, policies, procedures, and outcomes.  So, clearly operationalizing your variables may provide some more concrete examples.  I spent 20 years in the public sector and had a lot of interaction with fire personnel.  I would not describe the culture among fire departments as military-like.  There is a distinguished hierarchy and a protocol to be utilized during an emergency.  However, I would not necessarily associate this with militaryness. 

    Tony Daniel, Ph.D.
    Robert H. Ledbetter College of Business
    Shorter University


    From: "Stephanie Maynard-Patrick" <svmp@NMSU.EDU>
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:21:15 AM
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

    Ivan,


    Thank you for your comments, you have given me much to think about in regards of the differences between mentoring episodes and social learning. I would ask from your first hand experience, what other than learning some of the skills and knowledge you needed, did you or others gain from mentors (or being mentors) in the fire service? I seems like I might need to explore other outcome variables, as the variance in performance is so low. I also assume it was your experience that in the fire service there were very high and exact performance standards which if not followed resulted in the quick termination of employees? If so, would you consider this element part of the organization's structure or something else?


    Many thanks for your response and assistance!


    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847

    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv <OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU> on behalf of Blanco, R Ivan <rb39@TXSTATE.EDU>
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:23 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations
     

    Hi Stephanie,

     

    I did some research on firefighters in a cross-cultural study comparing the firefighters from Caracas, Venezuela and their counterparts in Oklahoma City, Ok! This so many moons ago that the paper was really typed on an IBM typewriter! Remember them?  The firefighters in Venezuela (at the time) existed in more paramilitary discipline regime than the guys in OKC! Working conditions at the time were also different, but these two groups did not show any difference with respect to their satisfaction with the job itself!  Looked at task technology but the measure applied (developed by one of my advisors) did not work well!

    I must tell you that I was a firefighter myself for many years in Venezuela before I became an academic. While it is true that in many fire departments they assign a mentor to the rookies it is also true that firefighters, more that police officers, spend a lot more time clustered together in their fire station! The togetherness that exists in the fire station is augmented when in fire situations. There is a whole lot of informal learning taking place all the time both in the fire station and when fighting fires! This learning comes from the mentor and from the veterans in the service. So, I don't think that it is too easy to separate both sources of learning! My last rank was that of Captain and I will be guiding, teaching, helping the other guys learn more and better what they were doing regardless of seniority. Some times the mentor would be there too! Although I have been away from the active service for many, many years many of the new guys still see me as one of them, even here in the U.S.!

    Thanks,

     

    Ivan

     

     

    Dr. R. Ivan Blanco

    Department of Management

    McCoy College of Business Administration    

    Texas State University

    San Marcos, TX 78666

    Phone (512) 245-1842   rb39@txstate.edu

     


    From: Organizational Behavior Division Listserv [OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] on behalf of David McLain [david.mclain@OSWEGO.EDU]
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:21 PM
    To: OB@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [OB-LIST] Militaryness in Organizations

    17 Feb 2014
     
    Hi Stephanie,
     
    I have surveyed EMT/firefighters several times and I am not sure the concept of "militaryness" is entirely represented as you intend in that sample occupation. You suggest EMT/firefighters and police are military-type occupations. However, they may be in uniform and have strong cultures but are often unionized, have long tenures with their organizations and expect to be employed for an entire career, and conduct their work in the surrounding community. Military personnel are non-union and often have expectations of short careers in the military except for the career personnel. The firefighters all have similar jobs and work in the same conditions and environments while military personnel have varied jobs and ranks. Military personnel differ by enlisted and commissioned designations, too. I am not sure the military personnel often have mentors.
     
    These are some of the differences that might influence construction of a measure of your construct. If I were designing a measure, I might relate it to organizational commitment and organizational culture. I might also relate it to a requirement for obedience to the command structure--not necessarily an authoritarian view but an implied respect for rank and position of authority.
     
    Good luck with your work.
     
    Dave McLain
    Hamilton, NY 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     


    On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Stephanie Maynard-Patrick <svmp@nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Hello Everyone!


    Please forgive cross postings with RMNET.


    We've been collecting data with fireman as the respondents, and gotten some surprising results. We are looking at the following relationship: INDEPENDENT VARIABLE: an individual's performance as a mentor; DEPENDENT VARIABLES: his or her protégé's job performance and OCB.

     
    Contrary to our theory, we get a non-significant correlation between mentor's performance and protégé's performance and a significant but negative relationship between mentor's performance and protégé's OCB.
     
    Also we noticed VERY little variance in job performance and OCB. The means and variances were 6.1 (7 point scale) mean, .34 variance and 5.34 (7 point scale) mean, .71, respectively. Perhaps lack of variance explains the non-significant correlation????
     
    Our sample consists of firefighters which we judge to work within an organization with characteristics similar to military organizations. All new employees are assigned a mentor for their first year, and many individuals enter into informal mentoring relationships after that point. Respondents indicated that 88% have been mentored, 47% are currently being mentored, and about 50% of individuals currently are serving as mentors.
     
    Has anyone seen these type of results?

     Of course it doesn't have to be mentoring, but the idea that in a military type sample, otherwise sound relationships may not hold.

    We wonder if perhaps some moderating variable (militaryness [for lack of a better term]) could be attenuating the relationships. We were wondering because it makes much sense to us that if someone was mentored well, then they would perform well, or at least better than someone who was mentored poorly. Of course, our theory could be wrong but before giving up, we wanted to see if anyone had any input for us.
     

    Further, we'll be conducting more surveys at other fire and police departments in the near future and would like to include a measure to capture this unique "militaryness," but I have had trouble finding a construct that quite embraces what we're looking for.  I was hoping someone could recommend a construct (ideally with measures) for the individual's perception of the degree of "militaryness" of the organization.


    Many thanks in advance!



    Stephanie Maynard-Patrick

    PHD Candidate
    Department of Management
    New Mexico State University
    svmp@nmsu.edu
    575-646-6847